Power Moves: Navigating Finance as Women Leaders

The finance industry is evolving - and so are the leaders behind it.

Coming hot off the trails of our 2025 Women in Finance Compensation Report, Power Moves brings together powerhouse women in finance for an honest, insightful roundtable conversation on what it means to lead in today’s financial world.

We dig into compensation equity, career advancement, mentorship, and how work-life balance looks different for every woman - whether you’re a mom, mentor, rising leader or a combination of the three.

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Transcript

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Haley Ashe: Hello everyone and welcome. I am excited to be here with you today for Power moves: Navigating finance as women leaders. And this is hosted by Zone.

This is going to be a real conversation, so. No buzzwords, no fluff. Just an honest look at what leadership actually feels like as a woman in the industry when you might be the only woman in the room or even the only woman on the team.

So with that said, we're going to kick things off with a few quick intros. I will get us started. I am Haley Ashe. I am head of Customer Marketing and Communications here at Zone and Co. And I'll be your host today. And I'm thrilled to be joined by two amazing women in finance leadership: Vicki Devins, VP of FP&A at Klaviyo, and Desene Sterling, financial controller at Sourcegraph.

So with that said, Vicki can you give us a quick intro and then we'll pass it over to Desene.

Vicki Devins: Yeah, sure. So happy to be here. As Haley mentioned, I worked for Klaviyo. I've been leading the FP&A team here for about two years. Prior to that, I worked at GE. I had the opportunity to cover most of their different business units, plethora of different industries, jobs, was there for over 15 years. And I'm based outta the Boston area. I have three kids outside of work, so busy with that as well, and I'm glad to be here as I mentioned.

Desene Sterling: Hi, I am Desene. I'm the controller at Sourcegraph. I've been leading the team here for about three and a half years. Prior to Sourcegraph I was at various companies, public, private primarily in the software field. And I have two kids outside of, Sourcegraph.

Haley Ashe: Awesome. Thank you ladies. And just to set the stage before we get diving into everything else zone recently published our 2025 Women in Finance Compensation Report.

So that's really one of the, the drivers of what spurred us to, to have this conversation today as well. So we just dropped that in the chat. And it is also available in the resource center of this webinar. It's based on responses from 109 women across the industry, some are Zone customers, some from some of our partnerships with associations like Wednesday Women and Females in Finance Collective. And some just found their, the survey on LinkedIn and decided to participate.

And the findings were really eye-opening. For example, women working at smaller firms tend to climb the ladder faster, we found, and often report longer hours and lower satisfaction. Meanwhile, women in software are seeing some of the highest compensation with almost half reporting total compensation above 250k, including base, bonus and equity. So a lot of interesting findings. So I'd encourage everybody to, to be sure to check out the report.

With that said, today's conversation is a chance to go even deeper into that, so we'll talk about what it really means to be a woman in finance right now. What's working, what's still challenging and what leadership really looks like behind the scenes.

Okay. So now that we've done all those quick intros, let's shift into what I like to call the leadership journey section of this, of this panel. And this is one of our, my favorite questions to ask because no two stories are ever the same, right? And there's so much power in hearing the real path, not just the highlights, but the pivot surprises and values that guided the way.

So let's start here and Desene, I'm going to start with you. How did you find your way into finance and more specifically into leadership?

Desene Sterling: I found my way into finance because I'm just super drawn to solving problems, I think is what it is. I really like bringing order to chaos and finance in the startup world is so much that for me.

And I really like that so much of the work that I'm doing is driving decisions based on the data that we're giving. And specifically in leadership, I don't really set out to be a leader. I would say it kind of, it just has evolved. In my industry, having experience bringing the order to from the chaos and building out a function is like a really valuable skill. And you mentioned that in like in a smaller company, you tend to move up faster. And I think that, like in tech, in the startup world, having seen and done the things that I've done, you get pulled in in leadership roles a lot sooner.

Haley Ashe: Yeah. Yeah. I love that. I love you saying that, being drawn into to finance and those decisions sooner.

Thank you, thank you for sharing that. Vicki would love to hear, hear your story and what, what path brought you into finance and leadership.

Vicki Devins: Yeah, sure. So when I was little, I really liked to play store. I think it was the idea of, you know, running a business, understanding how businesses create value, how they make money, how they interact with customers. So I think that was kind of very early years, like had me kind of thinking about that in the background.

Fast forward to high school, college. I'd say again, really liked math and numbers much more than writing. I think I dreaded anytime I had to write anything and the more I learned about different types of finance roles, for me, I kind of knew I didn't want to do iBanking. And so it was a lot about, okay, well what else in finance is there? And the more I started to talk to people who are in different companies. Hearing that finance was really, could be a business partner, and again, what Desene talked about in terms of adding value by kind of organizing data and driving insights and using data to drive decision making really appealed to me.

I would say I did always kind of have a vision for being in a leadership role. But it was probably more about the impact and like having a seat at the table versus like a, a title or a role. And so, you know, I guess it was, it was there, but maybe in a different non-traditional way.

And I think one thing that really flipped for me in recent years is that I used to kind of think about the impact being correlated to the size of the company I was at. And when I moved to Klaviyo from GE, which is obviously very big, it really flipped that narrative for me and I actually feel that I'm able to have, even more of an impact in a smaller company. You move incredibly fast, you're able to make decisions and run with them. You're able to see change much faster. And so I've really enjoyed being, you know, in a different environment where the leadership impact you have is actually quite different, even if it's in a smaller scale. So pros and cons of both though, for sure.

Haley Ashe: Yeah. No, no. Thank you for that, Vicki. And first of all, I love the image of you playing store as a kid, and that's, that's some of your, your early start to, to that and your understanding for how business worked clearly stuck with you.

And you know, really what struck me with your story is clarity you had around impact, you know, not necessarily chasing a title, but being drawn to the kind of leadership that lets you influence and shape business and more specifically your experience with Klaviyo, flipping that narrative on company size is such great insights. So thank you.

I think both of your stories highlight something really important here, and there's no one right way into leadership, right? Whether you're building your way into it, like Desene or growing into it with intention, kind of like Vicki shared, what matters most is the impact you're making along the way.

So, with that said, let's keep going. I want to talk next about the reality of what it feels like to lead, especially in environments where you may be the only, or the only woman in the room.

So let's get started with our first kind of questions here. So titles aside, there's a whole experience that comes with leadership when you're 'the only,' and that's something so many of us in this room might have even faced. So a 2024 McKinsey report found that just 40% of leadership roles are held by women, and when women are in those roles, they're often the only woman in the room. At the current pace, it'll take 22 years for white women to reach leadership parity, and more than twice as long for women of color.

So Vicki, we're going to start with you on this one. Have you experienced this dynamic and how have you learned to lead through it?

Vicki Devins: Yeah, so I would say earlier in my career, I think when you're first kind of growing up in finance, I actually found that it was pretty, we're kind of at parity in terms of gender diversity. I would say the kind of, the longer I've, you know, been in the function and grown in the function is where I've kind of seen it fall off.

I think, specifically when I worked at GE, I saw that there were certain kind of inflection points in your career where at times I would see peers, peer females of mine, kind of decide to. Lean out. And some of it was very intentional of "Hey, I, I want to have a little bit more balance in my life. This isn't something I'm enjoying doing et cetera. I want to do some other things."

But other times I felt like it was actually them leaning out because of a lack of confidence, which wasn't kind of the, you know, ideally what you want. So I think it's been something that is certainly been in the back of my mind is just understanding that sometimes, again, the lack of, parity at at more senior roles is, is intentional because, or, or is okay because females are picking that, but it's the other group of making sure people feel the confidence that they can do try to, they can do it. It's just a matter of if they want to do it and making sure that's the reason they choose and not, you know, self-selecting themselves out, I would say.

Haley Ashe: Yeah. I love how you put that: self-selecting yourself out. That's a, that's a great way to put it. Thank you for that.

Desene, what about you? Have you, have you felt this and how have you had to lead through it?

Desene Sterling: Absolutely. I would say in the vast majority of my roles, it's been very male dominated at the top. My managers have always been men. Prior controllers have always been men and I think for me, I always felt like I had to lead like they led whether that's to be very like commanding in a room or very loud in a room. And that's just not my style. So I always felt like sort of at odds if like, how can I be that successful if I can't be like that?

And what's been really helpful for me is just like embracing that I lead differently. I am. More emotionally connected to my teammates. I may not be the loudest in the room, but I, I work to get my voice heard in other ways. I form really tight business partnerships across the org instead of maybe being like the best presenter in the room and leaning into just that I'm different and that's okay and it's helpful for me.

Haley Ashe: I love that. And yes, to letting go of styles that don't fit, you know?

Desene Sterling: Yeah.

Haley Ashe: I think that's such a powerful way to lead, not by mimicking, but by owning your approach. So I love that.

Let's talk about mentorship next. In our women in finance compensation report that we did just 13% of VPs and 17% of Controllers said that they had strong access to mentorship.

Desene, let's start with you for this one. What does, what does mentorship look like for you now at this stage in your career?

Desene Sterling: I feel like I've been so lucky to have good mentors my whole career. I think that I, I don't know, unconsciously have sought out women just because I, I, I want to get that sort of experience from them.

Mentorship for me now I think is much more about. Looking to my mentors as peers as opposed to like looking up. I find that I, as my career has grown, I can talk to my mentors now and say, Hey, what are you doing in this situation? The environment is changing. How are you handling X, Y, Z? And that's been super helpful for me.

Haley Ashe: Love that. And you know, the idea of leaning on mentors, in that way, not just for big career moves, always, even too is, is such a good takeaway. Vicki, how about you?

Vicki Devins: Yeah, similar to Desene, I think was always kind of told early on. Yeah, try to, mentorship I think sounds like a very scary thing. But it can be just a peer, it can be a manager that you got along with. It can be somebody that is below you. It can be a family member. Right? It can be so many different shapes and sizes.

I think I have been intentional about trying to pair myself up with folks that have different, different styles that I actually feel uncomfortable with or feel like they can push me on an area that I'm not as comfortable on.

For example, like Desene mentioned, I don't love public speaking. So talking to someone and like getting advice and coaching from somebody that's really good in that area I think is a good way to do it.

And I think about it, you know, you're going to have mentors for different. Points in time in your career and life journey. I also have heard, I'm sure many of you have heard about the whole analogy of like having a board of directors and thinking about, you know, that's more of like a long term view of, certain mentors are going to almost elevate to that level of, you know, I think about that, that are going to help see you over time.

Right? Whereas some mentors might be, Hey, I need some help coaching on this area for three to six months. A board of directors, I would say is like my parents, right? It's, you know, a manager that I've worked with for a long period of time. It could be someone who gave me really tough feedback. And so, to me, that's, that's the important piece of that, like the length as well.

Desene Sterling: I really like the idea of having somebody as a mentor that has been tough on you historically. Yeah, because there are people that see your flaws like that.

Vicki Devins: It's, it's uncomfortable. It's also sometimes uncomfortable to ask, you know? But I think if you can kind of just get over it. And I think the other thing is if to be a good mentee means preparation for those discussions, right?

Making sure you go in with an agenda of what you hope to get out of it, and hopefully teach them something too. So it's mutually beneficial.

Haley Ashe: Love that. And I just have to say on the note of public speaking, I appreciate your mentors that, that have, have guided that and that you're here with us today and you're doing this webinar with us, both of you.

So thank you for, for sharing that on mentorship. And the last kind of question in this particular section, I want to ask both of you, and you've already both touched on it a little bit, but what does it mean to each of you to be a working mom in today's world, especially in the world of finance? And Vicki, I'll let you start with that one.

Vicki Devins: I would say it's just the idea of ruthless prioritization and it's not just, I think whether you're a working mom, I mean, it's just in general, everybody has a lot of roles to juggle. I think about, you know, being a mom, a sister, a friend, a manager, you know, an employee, right? Like, just all the different roles.

I think, I think it makes me better from a time management perspective and, you know, trying to compartmentalize different parts of your life is, is hard, but it also pushes you to be very efficient. I think. It's, it's never a perfect balance and you hear a lot of days where you feel like you're kind of failing at something or you know, but it also makes you better.

And I wouldn't have it any other way to, you know, not have like that the well-balanced and the very diverse set of experiences, you know? And I think it makes me a better leader too 'cause I'm able to connect more personally with my teams and, you know, appreciate that work is just a piece of, you know, it's the eight or so hours you spend during the day, but there's 16 other hours that you don't see, you know?

Haley Ashe: Yeah, absolutely. And I love the, the phrase you used, ruthless prioritization. I think that's such a simple but real way to say it. And I love the reminder that that boundaries can make us better, not lesser leaders. So I think that's an important thing to, to focus on too. So thank you for that. Desene, what are your thoughts?

Desene Sterling: All of what Vicki said, for sure. I feel like you have such, you have limited time and you have to prioritize everything so much differently when you have a much bigger life outside. It's like work is not your whole life. And I think ever since having kids too, I've become so much more empathetic to that. Before I felt like, why can't you do this? Or like, yes, it's five o'clock, but this still needs to get done. And knowing, getting an insight that like people have so much more going on outside of work has I think made me a better leader that I can connect better across the org.

I also think that finance, accounting, and tech, like are not known for being great about work-life balance. And I have had to set boundaries for myself and I'm very clear with my team that I expect them to set boundaries because I think when you don't, that's when you kind of run into this issue of like, "oh, I'm so burnt out. I don't have time for this." So just being very clear about what you can and can't do up front.

Haley Ashe: Yeah. Love that. Love that. And I think it's so important to normalize being both a mom and a leader to your point, especially in the, the financial and software space. I think that kind of openness that, that you're setting really sets the tone for everybody watching today too. So. Thank you both for, for sharing some of that.

So our next section, or our next part of our conversation is where we're going to talk about shifting this narrative and, and what needs to shift to support more women stepping into leadership.

So we've talked a little bit about what it's like to lead today, the challenges of being the only, and how you both navigated mentorship and motherhood along the way. But I also want to take a moment to talk about what's changing. So Desene starting with you, what signs of progress are you seeing in the industry and how do you think the narrative around what it means to be a female leader in finance is starting to shift?

Desene Sterling: I think there's been a ton of progress and I, for me, I think the biggest sign of progress is the flexibility. 10 years ago you would go into the office at eight, leave at six, and like you were there all the time, if you had to be out for a couple hours, you you had to go, like it was, it was an ordeal. Now you can work from home. You can have a hybrid schedule. It allows you to volunteer at school for an hour make those doctor's appointments and it just makes being able to be in the workforce and succeed as a woman, so much more flexible. I don't feel like I have, everything is a trade off for me. I'm able to do all of the things that I want to do.

Haley Ashe: Love that. Love that. And I think it's so important to, to hone in on the fact and the idea that like, we don't have to fit into the old school model anymore.

Desene Sterling: Yeah.

Haley Ashe: Is really powerful. And just the fact that conversations around burnout and boundaries and support are, are happening that is meaningful progress. Vicki, how about you? What changes are you seeing and how do you think the narrative is evolving?

Vicki Devins: Yeah, I would say definitely everything, echo everything Deene said in terms of like the actual scheduling flexibility, the idea that face time doesn't matter the way it used to and that, you know, you get your work done, that's, it's, it's the output, not the hours is massive.

I'd say the other thing for me you know. I think I, I moved from GE, very different industries to, to SaaS, and I think that also to me shows a different level of openness in terms of like, progress. You know, I, I would, I assume and had seen in, you know, years ago that you were in an industry for life, right? You were, you know, born and raised and, and grew up and wasn't a lot of openness to take a risk on somebody who didn't know that area or didn't know that role. I think a lot more discussions around it get, you know, the get the right talent and if they can learn, then you can throw 'em into any role or any company or any industry.

So to me different from the, you know, maybe gender diversity progress, but I feel like it's part of also just the evolving way that people are looking at talent. And I also think it's especially important for women who sometimes don't, self, again, back to that self-selecting yourself out. If you don't know that area or you're not an expertise, I think now people are being much more open and it's just up to us to kind of raise our hand and put our name in the hat, you know?

Haley Ashe: Yeah, no, absolutely. And I really appreciate the point that you made of being open to non-linear paths taking bets on potential and leadership style over just past experience. I think that mindset, mindset shift really can open doors. And I believe you shared too when we were chatting previously that in your current role you have a female CFO. Right? And about 50% of your leadership team is female too, right? So,

Vicki Devins: Yeah.

Haley Ashe: Yeah. That, I think that's, that's no small thing.

Vicki Devins: So yeah, she, she does such a good job of, not just like the idea of being outta the office, but then talking about why she's outta the office. Like, "Hey, I was out because I was prioritizing this for my kids, or this for my family."

And I think that's also important is to normalize it as opposed to just hide and do it on the, you know, so Yeah. Yeah. Really, really respect her.

Haley Ashe: Absolutely. That's no small thing, so I appreciate, appreciate you sharing that. And appreciate both of you sharing your perspectives.

It's clear that while there is probably more work to be done the narrative is starting to change though clearly, you know, with, with Klaviyo as an example and Sourcegraph as an example. And it's being shaped by leaders like both of you who are showing up really authentically, I think, and creating space for others to do the same.

So we are going to head into our final section ahead of Q&A. So that said, I will just have a quick little plug. If you do have any questions, go ahead and feel free to start popping them in our Q&A now or in the chat.

But for our final section, I want to close with something forward looking and that is advice for the next generation of women in finance. So whether someone is just getting started in their career or stepping into their first leadership role, I know, so many people in this audience might be looking for practical guidance, bold encouragement even, and just real, real talk here of, of what we're, what we're talking about.

So let's start with that. Vicki, what is one thing you wish someone would've told you 10 years ago to better prepare you for where you are today?

Vicki Devins: Yeah, the, the phrase that always sticks with me is the idea of get comfortable being uncomfortable. The idea that you're, the minute you're an expert or you're comfortable about an area, like it means you gotta move on and you gotta reach for the next stretch assignment.

So that's something that I, you know, just, just understanding that it feels awful at the time, but it means you're growing and like to recognize that and lean into it. I would say.

Haley Ashe: Yeah, love that. Get comfortable with being uncomfortable. I'm going to put that on a sticky note and make it where I can see it all the time. Such a great mindset. And I think the discomfort just changes form as you grow even too. But it never really goes away, so that's a good thing. Desene how about you? What do you wish someone had told you earlier in your journey?

Desene Sterling: How much you need to advocate for yourself. And I think where this, this resonates the most for me, is I always thought that if I work really hard, people are going to recognize it and that's how I'll succeed. And that's not always the case. You have to show your work, you have to speak up about your wins, and you have to ask for what you want and say, "Hey, here's why I deserve this." Because no one really watches out for you, like you.

Haley Ashe: Yeah. I love that: advocating for yourself. So important. Another sticky note, keep up, up above my computer. I think it's such an underrated skill too, especially when you are a high performer. You know, who might assume the work will speak for itself, but your point about making your wins more visible is, is a great reminder too.

Next question. What's a power move you have made, something bold or maybe even risky at the time, but that ended up shifting your path or opening, opening doors? Desene let's start with you for that one.

Desene Sterling: Sure. Early in my career, I was at a very established public company and I was under, I felt like that was the way to go. Like, you want the stability, you want the larger company. I left and I joined a super scrappy startup and there was two of us on the accounting team, and I learned so much and that changed my entire career tr trajectory. Like ever since then, I've been so startup focused and I found that's what I actually enjoy doing. It's not just going through the motions in a larger company, it's the building. Yeah, definitely taking that risk.

Haley Ashe: Love that. Such a great one. Such a great one. Vicki, what about, what about you?

Vicki Devins: Yeah. For me, I would say I was at one point asked to take a role outside of finance. I was working in a very traditional FP&A role and they asked me to move into a sales operations role. And the, it was kind of going from one end of the spectrum to the other in terms of FP&A being very calendar driven, deliverable driven, very much like, you know, what you're supposed to do and when. To an, to a role that was didn't even exist. I was the first one in it. It was white space. I had to build out a team, I had to build out priorities. Just basically kinda, the world was my oyster. It was again, very uncomfortable, but I learned a ton.

I think the biggest thing for me was it gave me a lot of empathy of how hard it was to actually go, drive, change and drive the numbers. Whereas when you're in. You know, finance and FP&A specifically, it's very easy to, you know, give a target out there. The other side of the coin of like what does it take to actually make the number? It just gave me a lot of empathy and a lot of understanding of how important it is to be able to influence and drive outcomes as opposed to just kind of report the news.

So yeah, at the time, very uncomfortable. Didn't even want to take the role, was kind of told I had to take it, but I look back and it was like a total game changer for me.

Haley Ashe: And I think you shared, you're reporting to the, into the CEO as well in that position, right?

Vicki Devins: Yeah. Who, you know, was very strict, tough German man. So again, was not a, not a very comfortable spot to take. But like Desene said, I think the idea of taking the risk and realizing that nothing's permanent. So, hey, what's the worst case I tried out for a couple months, I don't like it, and I can do something else. Or or best case, you do enjoy it and you learn a lot.

Haley Ashe: Yeah, no, I love that. Leaving a structured FP&A role to step into more of a white space function and reporting to the CEO nonetheless, that is, that's a leap.

But the way you framed it, I think empathy, grace gray space, influence without authority, all of that, you know, those are are great career accelerators that I'm sure have been invaluable for you to take along, along the rest of your career.

Alright, one last question, and I think this one is something for our audience to really take away with them to what is one bold step someone can take this week to lead more intentionally. And Vicki, we'll go back to you for this one.

Vicki Devins: Sure. I would say just. Speak up with whether it's questions or opinions, whether it's in a meeting with just one person, whether it's in a group meeting, whether it's in a all employee town hall, you name it, I think it's back to the, if that's uncomfortable, practice being comfortable.

And also a little bit of what Desene mentioned earlier around. You know, the idea that you have to kind of do a little bit of self-promotion, it's important, right? That idea of being visible and, you know, there is, there is some of that that you just have to be aware of is part of being a leader and growing your career. So it's important to to take those, those risks.

Haley Ashe: Yeah. Such a great one. Speaking up. You know, whether it's question or a point of view showing up with intention and a meeting is such a great muscle to build Desene. Why don't you bring us home? What is, what is your step up suggestion?

Desene Sterling: Mine is to ask for feedback.

I think that we look to our managers a lot for feedback because review cycle, if it's coming from our manager, that's kind of who decides our career a lot or our role at a lot of companies.

But asking for feedback from your directs and your peers. They work with you so much more than your manager. They're going to see things your manager doesn't see. I also think that when you are vulnerable and you are asking for, Hey, your feedback, good or bad, like, create a safe space for it, obviously it shows you value, their opinion that you're not just there to lead or for your directs and that you want, you want to change how you interact with them.

Haley Ashe: Yeah. Yeah, I think asking for feedback, especially from peers or direct reports, is powerful. And you know, it shows humility and openness and a real investment in your growth. So that kind of vul, vulnerability is great leadership. Well, thank you both. What a powerful way to close out the panel. I love both of those answers or really all of your answers in this section. I know this was one of the sections I was looking forward to most. So I think you both have done a really great job of advocating for yourself and speaking up and getting uncomfortable on purpose. So you've given us all a lot to think about and act on.

So that said, I know that Q&A seems like it has been blowing up. So let's open it up now for questions from the audience, if that's all right with, with both of you. So again, if you have other questions as we go, feel free to drop 'em in. But with that said, I'm going to go ahead and kick us off with our first question. And ladies, Vicki and Desene, feel free to to just pick whoever wants to, to get started answering this first one.

But our first question is, what strategies have helped you build financial confidence and high stakes leadership decisions?

Desene Sterling: I can take it. Having the data to support what my opinion on any of anything is probably what gives me the most confidence. I mean that and like having gone through it, a lot, you just feel more comfortable. But I feel like if I'm going into a decision and I'm giving my opinion, if I don't have supporting facts for why I have that opinion, I have no confidence and I would expect everyone in the room to not be confident in my opinion. So doing my homework ahead of time.

Haley Ashe: Yeah. Yeah. No, I agree. And I can say it's a similar feeling on the marketing side of the house too.

So I think having, having numbers and data to support everything that you're saying and really back it up is an important thing. Vicki, any any thoughts for you from you?

Vicki Devins: Yeah, I would, I'd say that the data and then also just that idea of like, think about who's going to be the most opposed to a certain decision. Opposed to the decision or tell you the data's wrong or, you know, there's always going to be the, the naysayers. So how do you think about how your position against those or how you'll be ready to answer some of those questions? Because the challenges will always come. And unfortunately we all know in finance the data's never perfect and it never will be.

So it's, it's just always be ready.

Haley Ashe: Yeah. Yeah. And I, and I love that. Michelle in the chat, just put, love that thinking one step ahead of the naysayers and completely agree. That's a, that's a great perspective.

Next question, really good one here. What single piece of advice would you give to any woman who, or any women who are looking to elevate their careers, gain confidence and become a strong leader?

Desene Sterling: I think similar to how I had answered one of the first questions is really just like, lean into your leadership style. The more authentically you, you can be and that you're not faking it you're just, you're going to be more confident. You're going to be more secure in how you go into all aspects of your role.

Haley Ashe: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Any other thoughts?

Vicki Devins: Yeah, I agree. I mean, I think the imposter syndrome is real and I think it's easy to look at, not to stereotype, but men who are louder, who appear like they know everything. Who, again, you know, you, you read the studies where they apply for the job that they have minimal qualifications for females, apply for the jobs that they match every single qualification for, so I think it's just like knowing that, that if that's something you struggle with, that you, you just have to kind of be aware and always fight that battle and try to be as true to yourself as possible in terms of your, your leadership style, the way you go across the way you interact. And yeah, same as Desene said.

Haley Ashe: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. No, no. Love both of those answers. Alright, the next question and I know this resonates very much with me too. I know many women who struggle with making mistakes even though we are all aware that it is part of learning, but what would you say are some ways you overcame missteps to continue to grow as you did have any, any missteps along the way?

Desene Sterling: I feel like I almost have like a postmortem with myself when I've had a mistake, like when I've made a mistake. And I think that this is definitely a me personality quirk, but I will rehash the mistake over and over and over more than I need to. So doing it at least in an organized way where I can say like, here's the mistake. Here's how, like knowing why I made the mistake is super helpful if I can like lock that away and not do it again. And just telling myself like, it is okay, like you've learned from it, you know why it happened, you know how to not repeat it and you can like put it to rest now.

Haley Ashe: Love that. Love that. And I, I agree. I'll just share some of my perspective too. I feel like it's almost like a taking a mistake and making it a positive thing. Yeah. So like always seeing a learning moment from it. Like that's how, even when I've had direct reports that have made a mistake, I'm like, just, we're going to look at this positively. This is a learning moment and you know, most likely you're never going to make this mistake again. So 100% agree with that, that outlook and perspective. Any thoughts from your side, Vicki?

Vicki Devins: Yeah. It's hard not to beat yourself up over it or over fixate on. You know that it happened. It is kind of just like, okay, it happened. Now what? And, and really what people remember is how you react to it. So just trying to really not spend, you know, do the proper reflection and figure out what you can learn, but then it's, it's move forward and, and get past it because guarantee you're the one who's holding onto it much more than anyone else, you know?

Haley Ashe: Yeah. That's a, that's a great reminder to, to just not hold onto it so long, not beat yourself up. I think that's a great reminder for all of us listening. Next question is from Lacey. How do you define success for yourself now versus earlier in your career?

Vicki Devins: For me, I, I would say, I think, you know, when I started off it was more about, you know, the promotion or the title or kind of like getting to that next level, whatever that level was. Now, I think it's like that constant check-in of am I learning? Am I making an impact? Am I feeling like I am having a voice? And like influencing the, the direction of the company.

Back to the hey, because you're juggling this with so many other balls in terms of your personal life. If you're not enjoying it, the majority of the time, I'm not going to say every day is sunshine and rainbows, but you're not enjoying it majority of the time. You know, you gotta really reevaluate. So yeah, I think it's much more about like the personal fulfillment versus the the seeking that title, you know?

Haley Ashe: Yeah. Yeah. And I think that does kind of go back to one of the things we touched on earlier, the amount of time that we spend working too. So I think adding in the element of making sure you enjoy it and that kind of being a baseline too, is an important reminder. So how about you Desene?

Desene Sterling: It's so similar. I totally viewed it as check boxes. Am I doing this? Am I moving up here? And now that I have the knowledge that my time is much more finite, it's much more about fulfillment for me. Like, am I learning? Am I growing, am I making an impact?

Haley Ashe: Yeah. Yeah. And Kimberly just put a great, a great note in the, in the chat, and she's worked on many executive teams where she was the only female and often when there is a meeting or trip she might not be invited because of the boys want to golf together. So one of the questions she asked with this is, have either of you experienced this and how did you handle it? Just this, she's, you mentioned this is tough because these can be recreational activities.

So how do you help develop deeper relationships in that regard?

Vicki Devins: Yeah, I, I think it still happens, right? It stings when it happens when you feel like you didn't get invited or didn't even, even if you don't want to go, you just want to get asked to go is kind of the thing I always struggle with. I would say a lot of the times I think it's like unconscious bias that they do it. And I think sometimes it might just be the idea of like kind of mentioning, Hey, heard you guys went golfing next time. Like, I'd love to meet you afterwards. Or like, Hey, let me know. I'll go do this. Or Hey, what if we go for a walk next time? I don't know. Shopping, I'm not saying that that's probably a common activity, but yeah, I, I just think, I really think it's, it's like they just don't think. And it's, it's really not intentional.

So trying to just almost like frame it as a, Hey, next time, could you think about it a little more? 'cause it, I would, I would opt to go. And then, yeah, if they do invite you, maybe you don't want to actually go play golf, but you figure out a way to pop in for some of the experience or whatever the, the session is. Or again, think of something that would be more gender friendly, you know, if the more people would want to be in gender and age friendly. Right. So,

Haley Ashe: Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's great. Any, any thoughts from your side Desene, on that one?

Desene Sterling: I, I just want to say I agree that it does sting, but I, I, in the vast majority of cases, I don't think it's intentional. But when you do get the invite, I do think it's so important to go. I think that there is something to be said for outside of getting to know somebody outside of work that makes, makes it easier for you to do your job at work. So if you don't like golf, maybe try to like golf for a day.

Vicki Devins: I like Laura's example of going to the country club and reading and then yeah, you still join for dinner after. It's awesome 'cause you showed up and you get to know somebody outside of work and it definitely makes influencing at work then more easily.

Haley Ashe: Love that. Love that. Great answers. Great answers all around and great, great question, Kimberly. Another question. What's one thing you think we should know about that we maybe did not cover today?

Vicki Devins: I would say compensation is a tough conversation to have. I think as, as a female, sometimes I've struggled to ask for that promotion or kind of, you know, push back if I think, you know, the, the dollars being offered aren't enough. But I think you really have to again, like fight for what you want and know that if you, what's the harm in asking? And you can do it in a way that's respectful. Or you can do it in a way that's, you know, very, tone deaf. Right? And so if you can do it nice, if you can do it in a way that's confident and, you know, factual and not emotional it's always the right thing to do. Always, always, always ask.

Haley Ashe: Yeah. I, no, I think that's great.

And I guess from my side, I would love to know, like, how do you, how do you prepare for that? Like how do you get ready to go into the room and have that conversation? What are the things that you typically do to, to get ready for that?

Desene Sterling: I think this is a great way to use your mentors, especially ones that maybe have managed you in the past or are the ones that are a little tougher on you. Role play it out with them, like how you would ask what they would say to you. And I think just having that in your back pocket when you go in for the actual discussion is so helpful.

Haley Ashe: Yeah, I love that.

Vicki Devins: I also think making it about you and not. A comparison of your peers is really important. Make sure you're ready with, yeah, your self-promotion points of your accomplishments, the impact you've had, all of that.

The minute you turn and you kind of are, well, so and so got, I heard so and so got this. Like, it just becomes more like complaining. So make sure it's very, again, objective, clear and you're really owning the work that you've done.

Haley Ashe: Mm-hmm. No, that's great. Thank you. Thank you both for that. Those are great perspectives.

I think we have time for one more question. So our last question that came in was any tips for having hard conversations? Especially when finance can often be seen as the bad guy.

Desene Sterling: One of my mentors gave me this advice very early on in my career, and I think about it every time I have to have a hard conversation: make it a nice sandwich. So you say like, you lead with something really positive, shows that you understand where they're coming from, give them the harder news in the middle, and then at the end follow up with, Hey, how can I help you so that this isn't happening? Or so that we don't run into this situation again, so that they are starting the conversation on a positive note and they're ending it on a positive note.

Haley Ashe: Yeah. Love that. Nice sandwich. That's a, that's a great way to think about it. I love it. Love it.

Vicki Devins: I haven't heard of that one. That's a good one. I would say again, you, yeah, you do have to say no a lot. You can still do it with the smile on your face and do it with empathy of the, Hey, I know this sucks, but here's why.

And I think making sure you explain the context for what you're saying no about, or why, or, you know, whatever the tough feedback is, is really important so they understand and they learn something from it as opposed to them. It's just a, it's something that they don't grow from, you know? So but it just, it also just requires practice. The more you do it, the, fortunately you get a little hardened and it's a little easier to do.

Haley Ashe: No, I love both of those answers. Alright, well thank you both ladies for, for taking the time to answer all those questions. And thank you audience for all the great questions. A lot of great questions in there.

Alright, so I know we are going to probably end up wrapping up a little bit early. So you'll have a little bit of time back in your day. But I just want to take a moment to, to thank everyone for, for coming who ask questions, who, who's participating in the chat. But most importantly, a huge thank you to both you, Vicki and Desene for being so open and generous with your stories and your insights today. So thank you so much for, for both of you for being here.

I hope this session gave everybody that, that joined and listen in today, something to walk away with whether that's a fresh perspective, a bold move to try this week or just a reminder that you're not navigating any of this alone. So again, this recording will be sent out in the next couple of days.

Lastly we just dropped in links to connect with this group here today on LinkedIn before you head out. So let's keep this amazing networking going and growing as as women in the industry. So that said, thanks again for spending this time with us, and I hope everybody has a great rest of their day.

Thank you.